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Oct 20, 2003 14:18:58 GMT -5
Post by MarySchuhriemen on Oct 20, 2003 14:18:58 GMT -5
Here's an essay by Dr. Farris, the founder of HSLDA, and he quotes from the scessecionist(sp?) papers. conlaw.hslda.org/class/docs/slavery.aspBtw, I've examined both sides of the issue, read what the people themselves said, and lived in both the south and the north. I am firmly on the side of the north (even if my ancestors were slave holders!)
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Oct 20, 2003 15:23:32 GMT -5
Post by ToriTelfer on Oct 20, 2003 15:23:32 GMT -5
the REASON the civil war started was NOT slavery. EVERYONE immediately thinks 'slavery' when they hear civil war, and since we're all so politically correct round here, slavery makes us gasp and cover our children's ears and turn on Barney (featuring, of course, a hispanic kid, a black kid, an asian kid, and a white kid). but i personally think slavery was something the north picked up on as a reason to hate the south more. hey, it worked. also, while kidnapping slaves from africa was just hideously inhumane, when you get to the slaves that were born and raised in america, it was almost kinder to let them stay slaves then release them--uneducated and totally unable to cope in the white guys world. there's so many issues here! the civil war was like a....i don't know...something with a ton of layers and pieces....a cake, maybe? i don't think we can say that one thing was why the war started. another thing, has anyone hear ever lived in the south? if you have you'll probably agree w/ me......there's so much HATE down there! oh my gosh! it's scary! the kids at my old school turned on me b/c i was a yankee! we had neighbors w/ their houses plastered w/ confederate flags and shotguns hidden every where! the southerners are still rebels! can you believe what this war DID to our country? it tore us apart, and we're still bleeding from it! over a century later! it makes me want to cry just thinking about it "Well, first of all... I think the yankees have won too much so they should loose...." also, benjamin, you're just mad about the CUBS! the yankees did not deserve to lose! what if we started applying that philosophy to other parts of life.....like YOU??!?!?!?!?!
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Oct 20, 2003 15:26:27 GMT -5
Post by ToriTelfer on Oct 20, 2003 15:26:27 GMT -5
oh...i didn't mean to add those stupid smileys at the end ( )....i wanted them to be questions marks but oh well. just had to clarify.
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Oct 20, 2003 15:27:48 GMT -5
Post by ToriTelfer on Oct 20, 2003 15:27:48 GMT -5
mary, you've lived in the south? KEWL!!!! what state? don't you just love southern accents?
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Oct 20, 2003 16:17:07 GMT -5
Post by MarySchuhriemen on Oct 20, 2003 16:17:07 GMT -5
I like southern accents, in fact I have a bit of one! Just a hint, though. That's what comes of a yankee spending 5 years in the deep south.
I lived in South Carolina, the state that started it all..... and almost nowhere the entire time I lived there did I see a rebel flag or shot guns.
The southerners were for the most part nice to us yanks.
I do remember some whites down there degrading blacks, but that, and the fact that they stop teaching Civil War history right before the battle of Gettysburg, is the only remnant left from the Civil War erra that spooks me.
Btw, George Bush is a southerner, and he's one of the most American Americans in the whole country!
The South is NOT THE CONFEDERACY ANYMORE! THEY ARE DONE WITH THAT!!!!!
And, the south started it all.....they fired on Fort Sumpter!
Tori, Have you read the essay? What do you think of the sessicionist (sp?) papers quotes?
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Oct 20, 2003 16:30:48 GMT -5
Post by ToriTelfer on Oct 20, 2003 16:30:48 GMT -5
Mary--i couldn't read the essay...it said type your username and passord....and i have no clue what they would be. sorry. i'm sure there's some great quotes in there. I know georgie bush is a southerner, but being president and all....i don't think displaying pro-south feelings would, umm, go over very well. btw, my brother does the funniest imitation him. just a random note. are you serious about not seeing any rebel flags or anything? i kid you not, the atmosphere was charged where I lived (LENOIR, NORTH CAROLINA! THE BEST PLACE IN THE WORLD! I just love the south and my friends from the south, and...(getting emotional here)....it makes me sad that it's like we're from 2 different countries. i wish the civil war had never happened, w/ all my heart. still, it makes for some great reading! there's this great movie on the civil war.....um, i don't remember what it's called so i'll get back to you on that. the theme song is Ashkon Farewell (my dad plays it on the violin! . by any chance do you know what i'm talking about? OH!!! Have you read about that photographer who arranged the actual dead bodies of the soldiers and took pics of them? I think that's the coolest and CREEPIEST thing. It gives me shivers. imagine seeing a pic of your own son dead on the field. AH! I have to stop. I'm scaring myself
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Oct 20, 2003 18:15:13 GMT -5
Post by MarySchuhriemen on Oct 20, 2003 18:15:13 GMT -5
Here is an excerpt from the essay, the part about that quotes the sessecionist (grr, I hate spelling!) papers. I'm not trying to prove that the south is bad, I'm just showing what I believe (and many others believe) is the cause of the Civil War. Tori, what do you think the Civil War was started by? Georgia. “The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.” Georgia’s resolution is four-and-a-half pages long and is consumed with illustrations and arguments about how the North and the Republican Party were intending to meddle with their right to own slaves. Mississippi. “In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course. “Our position is thoroughly indentified with the institution of slavery—the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us bu submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.” South Carolina. “And now the State of South Carolina having resumed her separate and equal pplace among nations, deems it due to herself, to the remaining United States of America, and to the nations of the world, that she should declare the immediate causes which have led to this Act.” After a long historical recitation of the American Revolution and the beginning of the Republic, South Carolina began its list of greivances. First, was the failure of the North to enforce the fugitive slave laws. Paragraph after paragraph denounces the anti-slavery efforts of the North. For example, “We affirm that these ends for which Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assumed the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutionsl and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constiution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.”...... “On the 4th day of March next, [1861] this [Republican]party will take possession of the Government. IT has announced that the South shall be excluded from the common territory, that the judicial tribunals shall be made sectional, and that a war must be waged against slavery until it shall cease throughout the United States.” Texas. “A Declaration of the Causes which Impel the State of Texas to Secede from the Federal Union.” .... “She was received into the confederacy [i.e. the Union] with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery—the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits—arelation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time.” One cannot read any of these four documents and reach any conclusion other than that slavery and solely slavery was the reason for secession of at least these four states. The official resolutions for secession enacted by each of the Southern states provide further evidence that slavery and only slavery was the motivating cause for secession. While many of the state resolutions are very short simply declaring the state to secede, those that give reasons in their resolutions clearly point to slavery. Alabama. “Whereas, the election of Abraham Lincoln and Hannibal Hamlin to the offices of preisdent and vice-president of the United States of America, by a sectional party, avowedly hostile to the domestic institutions [i.e. slavery] and to the peace and security of the people of the State of Alabama..........” Texas. “Whereas, the recent developments in Federal affairs make it evident that the power of the Federal Government is sought to be made a weapon with which to strike down the interests and property of the people of Texas, and her sister slave-holding States, instead of permitting it to be, as was intended, our shield against outrage and agression....” Virginia. [Whereas] “... the Federal Government having perverted said powers not only to the injury of the people of Virginia, but to the oppression of the Southern slave-holding States;....” All of these documents may be found in full at members.aol.com/jfepperson/causes.html.
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Oct 22, 2003 20:21:24 GMT -5
Post by ToriTelfer on Oct 22, 2003 20:21:24 GMT -5
mary....i honestly am totally in admiration of you for getting ALLLLLLLLLLLLL that evidence! i really am speechless. (but don't worry, it's not permanent....i mean, uh, worry, b/c it's not permanent. wait... ) I personally was laboring under the delusion that the civil war was started b/c the south wanted to be free of the north. you're saying slavery is why the south wanted to be free (i think). Ok, then it's all good! What i was trying to say is that the civil war wasn't started by the north b/c of the slaves in the south. If you're saying slavery was the cause....but the cause for the south, then yeah, I agree w/ you. (theme from barney plays) (oh gross, i can't believe i just said that) as a last note, i would like to add..... -Mary's greatest fan
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Oct 22, 2003 21:45:27 GMT -5
Post by JasonPensa on Oct 22, 2003 21:45:27 GMT -5
-Mary's greatest fan On a totally off topic side note: **is wondering if he should change Tori's rank or text to say, "Mary's Greatest Fan"** Wow, Mary... you have a fan!! How cool is that?? His Servant, Jason
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Oct 22, 2003 22:54:35 GMT -5
Post by ToriTelfer on Oct 22, 2003 22:54:35 GMT -5
yeah Jason! Do it! Yay!!!
-Jason's greatest fan
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Oct 23, 2003 12:51:06 GMT -5
Post by ApocalypseQ on Oct 23, 2003 12:51:06 GMT -5
i know this is spam but even though i'm not an admin or varsity do i get a fan
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Oct 23, 2003 16:19:03 GMT -5
Post by MarySchuhriemen on Oct 23, 2003 16:19:03 GMT -5
Jason-the-hulk-freak, sure, you can have a fan. let's establesh the official "Jason Lam cool guy fan club" Tori, what do you think the north fought the war for, out of curiosity? I believe it was for the preservation of the union, and well, slavery did come into play.......maybe wasn't the "mainest" thing the N fought for. Who's your favorite general in the CW? Mine are Grant, Chamberlain, and Longstreet!
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Oct 23, 2003 16:34:05 GMT -5
Post by MarySchuhriemen on Oct 23, 2003 16:34:05 GMT -5
Tori....YOU LIKE THE MOVIE "GODS AND GENERALS"??!!!
YIPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! I'M NOT ALONE!!!!!!!!!
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Oct 23, 2003 17:31:26 GMT -5
Post by DavidRojas on Oct 23, 2003 17:31:26 GMT -5
i know this is spam but even though i'm not an admin or varsity do i get a fan I'll be your fan... if you'll be mine.
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Oct 23, 2003 21:13:01 GMT -5
Post by BenjaminWolfson on Oct 23, 2003 21:13:01 GMT -5
ok ok!! Go to Walmart and buy a fan!! It's much easier Thank you for shopping walmart and staying on topic :-)
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